Dirt Bike FAQ

The guys are right about them being junk to start with
and i have never really thought about it but i would guess they would not handel the higher revs of a two stroke they wont stay togeather now never mind at higher revs

Pretty much all chinese bikes are honda clones (the quads i believer are actually clones of polaris and yamaha's)

find a four stroke honda bike that fits… (suspension travel, seat height, engine styling) and that's your best bet…

http://www.motioncycle.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=2002&fveh=4253

use that site, it should help you…

Interesting,,You've got 7 or 8 "same" answers.

Has anyone explained WHY you were told that about your new Chinese bike?

You can look around and see only Rare mention of "Loctiting Everything" on the Jap Dirtbikes.

It's Not because the Chinese Vibrate more than the Japs.

Loctite does NOT keep Bolts/Nuts Tight.
It merely keeps them from falling off when they come loose,,,and any parts they're holding coming adrift.

Fastener Tension is what keeps things tight.
Pretty Much the same as a "Spring Tension" Effect.

When you Torque a Fastener to correct specs,,,
the shank STRETCHES and holds the tension in a spring-like effect.

Too Loose,,,and ya dont have enough tension to hold the load.

Too TIGHT and you've exceeded the Yield Strength of the Fastener,,,,you've "sprung the spring",,,Over Stretched it.

Old Saying,,"Over Torqued Bolt is a Half Broken Bolt"

There's all sorts of GRADES of fasteners.
Higher Grades have both Higher Yield Strength AND typically a "high modulus of elasticity"—they are SPRINGIER.

LOW Grade Bolts are Soft,Weak,Spongy,and with Low Yield strength.

When you Torque them to "Correct Specs",,,they Stretch too.
But when You LOAD them,,,that exceeds their elasticity.

The Result is that the fastener PERMANENTLY Stretches.
A Bolt becomes actually LONGER.

A "Longer Bolt" gives exact same effect as a LOOSE BOLT which is not tightened down all the way.

Dynamic Loading/Movement,etc will eventually LENGTHEN,,,Not "loosen",,the fastener to the point where it Becomes Loose.

Then Vibrations will cause nuts to back off,fall off,,screws & bolts to vibrate out of their hole and so on.

Loctite can be BAD NEWS on Low Grade hardware.

Exagerated example:
Say you have a Bolt that has a 1" Clamped Length when installed and torqued.
And it Stretches in service to 1 1/8".(Gross exageration)
But OBVIOUSLY it's then Wobbling Loose,,right?
It's no longer even bottomed out on the parts,,not even "touching".

So what does that Normally Require?
RE-Tightening,obviously.
(In Reality,,it NEEDS a Better Grade Bolt)
So You have a Low Grade Bolt,,,loosened from Over Stretching,,,,
and a SEMI-SEIZED Thread from Loctite.

The LOCTITE itself introduces a False Torque during Re-Torque operation.
It RAISES the Break-Out Torque just to MOVE it.
That gets Added to the Total Torque.

So you either :
a)See 15ft Lbs on your Torque Wrench,,,while Clamping Force is only equivalent of 10FT lbs.
Because 5ft lbs goes Just to TURN the Fastener
or
b)You Torque the Threads and Shank of the fastener sytem without applying ANY clamping force
or
c)You try to REMOVE the fastener which has been Over stretched beyond it's yield strength,,,and the Torque demand of the Loctite allows you the Break the Fastener becomes it comes loose.

Now,,,did you see me say ANYWHERE that "Locktite is BAD??"
Or,,,"DO NOT USE Locktite"??

No,,it's a fine product and does an incredibly dependable job in it's intended & appropriate applications.
People bet their Lives on it,,,and the safety/security of Zillion Dollar Equipment.

But you have to Focus on the Key Words>>"Intended & Appropriate Applications"

There's LOTS more to the matter than knowing what each Color of Loctite Does.
The explanation of THAT simple aspect is written right on the product's instructions.

………………………………………………………………….
The Best,,,and generally the ONLY advantage that Loctite can offer any unit assembled with Low Grade Hardware is to prevent a part from falling off.

It will Retain a Loose Bolt or Nut.

That SOUNDS like,,,"Well thats what it's supposed to do"
And that's correct.

But ,,THEN What?

What Loctite DOES NOT DO is prevent parts from coming loose due to Fastener Stretch/Yield.

Nothing about Loctite improves the metallurgy of the fasteners involved.

It ONLY increases Torque Requirement to prevent vibrations from spinning a nut off,etc.

Consider what happens NEXT,,,when you get tired of your exhaust flopping around,,,Handlebars slipping,,,footpegs wobbling around,,etc.

And all your "safely Loctited" nuts/bolts are Still Present on the Now Loose hardware.

Tighten them Up?
Good Luck.

It was "half Broken" when originally installed,,
Yielded it's clamp length till it got LOOSE,,,
Now You wanna Torque it AGAIN,,,,but with the addition of the Loctite Breakout Torque Requirement?

I'll say it again,,,NOTHING Wrong with Using Locktite.
At least it "FEELS GOOD" that you've done SOMETHING.

But whoever told you to use Loctite SPEFICALLY BECAUSE
You're bike is CHINESE does NOT Understand the phenomenon of those machines having Nuts & Bolts which continually come loose and fall off.

The "Falling Off" aint the Problem.
That's only the RESULT of the Problem,,which is FAILED Fasteners.
Preventing the things from Falling Off is Not a Bad Thing,,

But it ONLY is addressing a SYMPTOM of a more serious and potentially dangerous problem.

Loctite use has the distinct potential to cause Further Probs when you try to Tighten stuff.
And most likely will help the fasteners reach Failure sooner.

Only REAL FIX is to REPLACE the Fasteners with Hi Grade Hardware.
Nuts,Bolts,AND flat washers & lockwashers as well.
Spongy ,Soft-surfaced washers don't help matters.

I realize that Replacement is Both tedious And an expense.
But it's a Genuine Fix,,,not just Feel-Better-About-It Patch.

A Rational Approach would be to initially replace Critical App/Safety Related hardware,,,such as Brake Mounting stuff,,Handlebar Clamp bolts,etc.

WAY more of a nuisance to use than Loctite,,,but a Much Better alternative is to use a couple wraps of Teflon Tape.

It forms a Pseudo-"Nyloc Nut" by introducing enough Thread Interference to impede vibration spin-off.

Teflon Tape also has the xtra benefit which Loctite Doesn't of prevent Thread Galling,,,,and Torque Binding between the threads.

Especially on Low Quality Tapped Blind Holes where you DONT wanna break a bolt off in the hole.

When Threads engage each other and begin to take a load,,,
The FRICTION between the 2 sets of Threads begin to "bite into each other".
On Soft,Mis Formed,or otherwise Low Quality Fasteners,,,any Further Torque simply Twists the fasteners shank.
That Creates a False Torque because Thread Bind Stops the advance of correct Stretch.

The Nut quits jacking up the bolt Tighter and Stretching it to correct tension,,,,Because the Threads Freeze.
So any further Torque just TWIST the Shank,,,NOT the Thread.
A Few Heat Cycles or Load Cycles Relaxes the Thread Friction>>>result is a Loose Bolt.

Teflon Tape as a thread Locking Agent prevents Thread Binding to a high degree,,,and ensures far more accurate actual Torque.

It's a Tedious Nuisance to use it,,,,even with a BUNCH of practice.
And hardware never gets "handy" and finger-spinnable when disassembling.

Anyway…..
Nothing "Wrong" with Loctite.
But it DOES warrant a Bit more thought & consideration of the task at hand.
One should be fully aware of what they're dealing with,,what they're trying to accomplish,,,and what the outcome of any effort will be.
As well as being aware of alternatives & their Pros & Cons.

The Observation of Chinese Machines "needing Loctite" is NOT as obvious as it seems.
The Problem is Low Grade Fasteners.
Which need occasional tightening.
In light of that condition & its requirement,,,Loctite and it's properties may not be the ideal choice.

Doing Something is not necessarily Always better than doing nothing.
Sometimes there can be ,,"Worse than doing nothing".

Like adding torque demands to already weak fasteners,,,especially when they're expected to need frequent tightening.

…………………………………………
****Been there,, Done that,,,exact same situation.
Anybody who worked on JAP bikes in early '60's recalls the Japanese Standard Torque Specs.

"Tighten it till it gets loose again,,then back off half a turn"

6mm bolts got broken off without even realizing they were getting tight,,,especially if they were old.

8mm bolts could be broken off at will.
Or,,the threads pulled outa the nut.

American 1/4"(6mm equiv) Grade 5 from Cars,Harleys,or Brit Bikes took a Lot of effort to strip or break.
Ya could stretch them till they were Distinctly narrow in the middle.
A Grade 8 was extremely difficult to break.

A Grade 8 3/8" SAE bolt(8mm equiv) would Damage TOOLS before it would break.

Finally the Japs upgraded their hardware.

The Chinese will too eventually.
I have a hunch they're at LEAST as serious about developing their Bike Industry as the Japs were in 1960.

The parallel of each country's introduction to American mkt is remarkable.
The Japs had just about every aspect of their machines Nailed.
Except material quality was marginal in many aspects.
The Chinese,,in my opinion,,are very much the same right now.
Good designs,lots of features,great prices,styling,everything.
But they're using cheesey quality materials in areas that blight the whole bike's overall value and appeal.

In 60's,,,it took a LONG time for People to FINALLY say,,"The Japs Build GOOD bikes".

I think the Chinese CAN turn that corner Real Quick with some minimum & low cost Upgrades.
We'll likely just wake up one day and see "World Class" Chinese Bikes with quality equal to anyone's.

If they dont shoot theirself in the foot first,,from crap like skimping $20 per bike on nuts & bolts.

That's Critical,,but it's also the kind of nuisance which makes potential Dealers reluctant to wanna fooll with them.
And for the Chinese to ultimately get solid established,,they GOTTA build better Dealer /Parts/Service network than they have so far.

Anyway,,enough babbling outa me.

Good Luck with it

There are many of them world wide, especially with the outbreak of all the Chinese clone bike manufacturers. The big 5 are Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and KTM.

I'm not sure that the Chinese are quite as good at making engines as the Japanese just yet. I would stick to Japanese for piece of mind about spares and servicing. Though the bike does get some good ratings on the Internet about it being a good little racer.
I cant believe I just typed that. But Racing is Racing. even if its with small bikes.
its Quality of build will be answered over time, as with other Chinese imports

I owna chinese bike…. a 200cc allroad to be exact… no problems with it so far, and i've taken it apart twice (painted it then decided i wanted to do a better job a month later)

most all chinese bikes (which i'm betting this is) are the same…. the real problems are finding parts for when it does break (even mclaren f1's will brake after so long…. machines brake, that's part of what machinery really is, replaceable parts)…. and don't expect any site you buy it from to carry parts for it, you have to go to other sites for the parts…

roketa is the easiest ot get parts for… but their apparent quality seems to be shotty at best…. you kinda have to weigh one for the other (durabilty vs. ease of getting parts) to find a good one…

if none of yal really know that much about dirt bikes and the parts involved, get roketa… so when it does need parts replaced, they will be extremely easy to find….

Upgrading a disposable motorcycle is a waste of time. You don't need to buy a new 125cc bike, get one that is 2-3 years old and well maintained for less then half the original price. A 125cc bike will not be good for driving on the street unless you like in a rural area without highways. The age limit to drive depends on your state, I don't know Indiana's. You definitely will/should take a class to learn the laws of the street before riding in traffic. If the 125 you are looking to buy is a 2-stroke you need to work on your mechanical skills as the engines don't last that long.

If it's a newer bike and doesn't have a title, get the vin number and have the DMV check to be sure it's not stolen.

If it's a chinese or taiwanese off-brand NAPA special, most aren't titled, because they don't qualify as 'motor vehicles' and are not really sold as such. They're just cheap toys.

The downfall? If it's stolen, it can be taken away from you and you'll lose all your money.

If it's an off-brand, it may last you awhile, and be fun to ride, or it may break in a few months. If you're lucky, it'll last long enough to get your $$'s worth out of it. Resale is extremely poor on these off-brand 'toys' also.

I'm not familiar with the brand. Most adjustments are on the handlebars by the throttle. If it is a chinese brand then good luck and shame on you.

You dont want a mini moto mate, there chinese rubbish and break to much. either get a good brand of pitbike (terra-moto,thumpstar) or if its to rome the streets get a second hand chinese pitbike for around £200 (check your newspaper) my very first mini moto cost £175!!! which when i think now is a total rip off considering i got a genuine thumpstar for £250.